Seedling Apple Trees – Let’s Give ’em a Go

There’s a section in Stephen Hayes’ hugely informative and rather entertaining book Tales From an English Orchard in which he discusses the pros and cons of breeding your own new apple varieties from pips.
The relevant section is headed “Do not be tempted to raise a new variety yourself!”, which seems unambiguous enough, but just to be clear, here’s a quote to really drive the point home:
“This piece of advice is worth the price of this book: do not try to grow an apple tree from a pip. I realise that my advice may tempt some people into doing just that, to prove they can. OK, you were warned.” (author’s emphasis)
Reader, I am indeed “some people” and have indeed decided – fully fore-warned as I have been – to give it a go. Yes, even having read through the esteemed Mr. Hayes’ subsequent section, “Most new apples grown from pips are rubbish!” and both digested and fully accepted his further advice, to whit:
“What is the point of taking a long gamble over ten years or more at raising a new variety of doubtful value, while we neglect, forget and risk permanently losing hundreds of old apple varieties of known worth?”
After all that, I’m still stubborn enough to want to try to raise something new and potentially interesting, albeit on a very small scale. Which, yes, limits my chances of success still further. But hey, if all it costs me is a bit of time and attention diverted towards growing on a few seedlings in a few air-pots to see if we get anything vaguely interesting or useful as a result, then even if it does turn out to be a waste of time over the next few years, then I’ve not really lost much in the process.
So, the photo at the top of this post is of a pot of apple seedlings, germinated from the pips of three ‘Herefordshire Russet’ apples, taken from the air-pot grown tree in my back garden. They were sown late last summer, and I freely admit, I have no idea what the other parent might be. The most likely candidate is the ‘Cornish Aromatic’ tree that was growing in the pot next to the ‘Herefordshire Russet’ and was in full bloom at the same time. There’s a ‘Blenheim Orange’ in the next pot along, but as that’s a triploid it’s much less likely to be the parent1Because genetics… more on that in another blog post at a later date., and there’s also a ‘John Downie’ crab apple in the garden, but it didn’t blossom at all well last year, so the chances of that being the parent are probably lower. Or of course it could also be any of the domestic or crab apples growing in any garden or park for a mile or so around, depending on how far the local bees have been foraging. It all adds to the gleefully chaotic nature of the process, so it’s ‘parent X’ for now.
The next step will be to pot up the seedlings individually in a fresh soil-compost mix, keep them watered and alive over the summer, and see which of them show good signs of growth. Then the strongest few will be potted up into small air-pots and be given a good feed in the autumn, before they enter dormancy. I’ll probably leave them to grow on to for another year or so, then we’ll see what happens. As Stephen Hayes suggests in the section headed “How to best raise a new apple variety, if you must try”2I must, sir. I must!:
“In the second winter, or once you have some wood at least 4mm in diameter, cut the scion wood, store cool and moist, and graft onto a dwarf bush apple tree in April … Label each one as to where the pip came from. Each successful graft will give you an idea about is performance within 3 years or so, and you will have more shots at the target than if you tried to raise whole trees from your pips, so a better chance of one coming right.”
The author suggests this method – top-grafting to an existing tree, rather than grafting onto individual dwarfing rootstocks, if I’m reading it right – will save you about five years’ waiting time, compared to trying to raise the trees on their own roots, which could cost you up to 8 years “before discovering that the fruit [is] worthless – as it probably will be – and you’d need far more space.” His concluding words on the subject are well worth repeating:
“So, if you want to try to raise a new variety, take a systematic approach as described above but don’t do it instead of planting trees of known performance and quality, but as well as … Have a go if you’re up for it, but make a realistic plan and minimise your losses.” (author’s emphasis again)
I completely agree, but I also reckon that with an orchard of up to eighteen3Depending on how well the newly-grafted family tree performs over the next few years… apple varieties of varying pedigrees on Plot #79 and another dozen or two cordons and/or stepovers coming along on our main Plot #59 allotment orchard, I’m probably doing my bit on the heritage front (for now) and can afford to indulge in a spot of hopeful breeding on the side. Let’s see what happens, eh?
In the meantime, I highly recommend Tales From an English Orchard, which is a very frank, straightforward and practical account of the trials, tribulations and triumphs of planning, establishing and developing a small-scale commercial orchard. It’s only available on Kindle via Amazon4This is an affiliate link. If you buy a copy of the book via this link, I’ll earn a very small portion of the cover price, which I promise to put towards expanding my own pomolibrary. priced at a very reasonable £3.77 just at the moment, so a bit of a bargain.
For further advice on a more scientifically rigorous method of manually cross-pollinating apple varieties, take a look at Steven Edholm’s latest video from his SkillCult blog, ‘Updated Apple Pollination Technique For Breeding‘:
How about you? Have you tried to raise your own new apple varieties? Do you have any tips to recommend, or classic pitfalls to watch out for? Do please let me know, via the comments. (Please note, first-time commenters’ contributions are automatically held for moderation, so apologies for any delays in your comment appearing on-site. I’ll try to remember to drop you an email when it’s live.)
Footnotes
- 1Because genetics… more on that in another blog post at a later date. ↩︎
- 2I must, sir. I must! ↩︎
- 3Depending on how well the newly-grafted family tree performs over the next few years… ↩︎
- 4This is an affiliate link. If you buy a copy of the book via this link, I’ll earn a very small portion of the cover price, which I promise to put towards expanding my own pomolibrary. ↩︎
Good luck!
Cheers!
Love the idea of top working an established tree, a family tree with your own offspring.
Good luck.
Cheers Steve. This one was a prime candidate for top-working, as an outgrown MM106 wasn’t ever going to be good for much else. I’m not sure I’d want to partially top-work a tree that couldn’t be taken right back though, I suspect the established branches would sap the vigour from the scions. Bud-grafting seems the much better option for creating a family tree on established stock.
“I completely agree, but I also reckon that with an orchard of up to eighteen apple varieties of varying pedigrees on Plot #79 and another dozen or two cordons and/or stepovers coming along on our main Plot #59 allotment orchard, I’m probably doing my bit on the heritage front (for now) and can afford to indulge in a spot of hopeful breeding on the side.”
I’ve read Hayes’ book and watched his videos, and this is my view as well. The need to conserve existing heritage varieties is in my view the strongest argument against and he is right to point that out. And he’s right to discourage less serious people from doing it.
My argument would be:
Step 1 – make sure you have enough apples for your own needs/wants and are happy with reliability of them.
Step 2 – make sure you have some interesting heritage varieties in the mix.
Step 3 – if you’ve done step 1 and 2, and you can conserve a good few heritage varieties, you’ve earnt the “right” to take up some space with a breeding programme.
I don’t have fruit trees myself or the space for them right now, but it is a goal of mine one day. Personally I would like to go back and breed from the older overlooked apples, to avoid genetic bottlenecks in the future and broaden that family tree a bit. The apples with pineapple flavour deserve attention – eg. Court Pendu Plat, Pitmaston Pineapple, Pine Golden Pippin, etc. Golden Harvey is another one that deserves breeding attention. Plus local/regional rare ones like Flower of the Town which apparently has that northern hardiness. Not an exhaustive list of course.
Hi Reece – As it happens, since I posted this back in ’22, only one of those seedlings has survived the intervening overly-poor and/or overly-hot summers. That one is still growing reasonably strongly though. It needs re-potting again, and might produce fruit in a year or two, just possibly, if I’m lucky.
And since posting I have planted another (does sums in head) two dozen or so cordons, with another dozen grafted earlier this year and due for planting next year, and another three dozen or so that I’ll be grafting up this coming winter. Nearly all heritage varieties, a few more modern.
I do also have a pot of saved pips from this year’s ‘Herefordshire Russet’ fruits, and I am planning on having another go at the whole seedling thing. So we’ll see how things progress over the next few years.
A quick note on those ‘pineapple’ flavours btw: in my experience ‘Pitmaston Pine Apple’ is an excellent apple, well worth growing, packs a lot of flavour into a small fruit, but it doesn’t actually taste of pineapple. Which is great for me, as I loathe pineapple, always have.
I think at some point the second two words in the name were run together and folks assumed that ‘pineapple’ was a flavour indication, rather than a typo, and maybe the power of suggestion does the rest. I’ve tried a few ‘Court Pendu Plat’ this year, and there’s no hint of pineapple there either. ‘Pine Golden Pippin’ and ‘Golden Harvey’ I haven’t had the pleasure of just yet, but they do sound interesting. ‘Upton’s Pyne’ and ‘Lucombe’s Pine’ are another couple of examples the ‘Pine’ type that we have at work. No pineapple flavours there, either (phew!).
I’ve not actually tasted real pineapple myself, I’m trying to describe that unusual flavour that this group of apples gets which other people describe as pineapple, clearly different to most other apples. Just never tried actual pineapple to check if that description was accurate.
I’ve tried pitmaston and court pendu plat myself, the rest I’m just going on descriptions from research sadly. I’ve had CPP from two different places which reminded me of that pitmaston taste when fully tree ripened, though it was stronger in the pitmaston itself from what I remember.
Ah, yes, I do know what you mean. Seems to me the flavour profile that both PPA and CPP have is a decent amount of acidity without either an over-balancing sweetness or the sourness that you might get from an under-ripe, green apple. Something like that.
Perhaps pineapple was the flavour that the folks who named PPA had in mind by way of comparison, but I suspect pineapples back in the C19th had a different flavour profile to modern pineapples, so maybe that’s why the direct association has been lost?
All rather fascinating, I can feel another deep-dive research project coming on 🙂